All Sketchup, All the Time

Pibuz · Post by **Pibuz** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:28 pm

sorry stinkie..
You used sketchup as a modeler, right?

I notice your plaster material seems to have a simple color on the diffuse channel and a bump applied: is that correct?

I've been in trouble understanding how to map different textures on a same material, even though i've read and re-read a million times the SU UVtutorial: i just can't get out of it!

Could you please post a two-three steps how-to, so i can make this topic clear to myself? If it's not too much trouble for you, and when you've a little spare time..
You'd be very kind..

Stinkie · Post by **Stinkie** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:51 pm

Yeah, I'm using SU.

It's not a plaster material. It's a tile texture (one of Arroway's). No bump map, and a very slight bump value. I was able to make it look that way through simple (yet time consuming) trial and error.

Are you having trouble using bump maps? If so: pretty simple. Import the bump map using the SU material editor. Do not paint it on a face. In the SU mat editor, double click on the mat you want to assign the bump map to. SkIndigo will open. Go to the bottom of the SKIndigo UI. You'll see a drop down box. Use that to choose the bump map. Set your bump strength.

At least, that's how I understand how it's done. I am no expert.

Pibuz · Post by **Pibuz** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:55 pm

Thanks stinkie for your quick answer!
Unfortunately i already knew what you explained to me!
My generic problem is to map a bump map when this process includes multiple UVmapping in SketchUp..
Let's say:I want to put a bump map over a simple color surface: how can i adjust the right dimension of the bump texture? With UVmapping, for sure.. But i can't get how..

Just cos we're here, speaking of Arroway..
I've got a pair of things to ask (to everyone who can answer).

1. A little time ago, playing around with an arroway texture on a floor diffuse channel, when i exported to indigo i got an error message saying that only 3components jpegs were currently supported, and then indigo crashed.. Any idea?

2. Another time i tried to add a floor bump map over a wooden floor mat (always by arroway). The two maps were the same size, but when i rendered only a part of the floor was bumpy: it seemed like the bump map hadn't been tiled. Any idea?

3. Last question: arroway releases a reflection map, together with a diffuse and a bump. I've understood that the reflection map is to be put in the exponent map (phong mat) and still somehow UVmapped, but i don't understand the numeric box to the right of it. What are we supposed to put in as a value?

4. Last one i promise: is really needed to UVmap textures in sketchup if the multiple textures i use (like reflection and bump map as in arroway's case) are the same size as the diffuse used in the SU material?
In the quickstart tutorial of SkIndigo it says that multiple UVmapping is needed, if we want to use a map different from the diffuse texture..

Whaat · Post by **Whaat** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:31 am

Pibuz wrote:4. Last one i promise: is really needed to UVmap textures in sketchup if the multiple textures i use (like reflection and bump map as in arroway's case) are the same size as the diffuse used in the SU material?
In the quickstart tutorial of SkIndigo it says that multiple UVmapping is needed, if we want to use a map different from the diffuse texture..

You DO NOT need to UV map additional textures (bump, exponent, clip) if they are all the same size as the map applied on the SU model (normally diffuse/abledo).

You DO need to save the UV set of a texture (using the right click context menu as described in the tutorial) if there will be no texture applied to the SU model when you export and render.

Once you have saved an UV set, you need to select the UV set in the 'MAPS' area of the material editor so SkIndigo knows which UVs to use.

That's all for now. I will try to answer your other questions later.

Whaat · Post by **Whaat** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:40 am

I hope this tutorial will help explain how to use a bump map with no SU texture applied to the model.

http://www.indigorenderer.com/joomla/fo ... php?t=3291

Pibuz · Post by **Pibuz** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:26 am

perfectly clear!
Thank you VERY much!

any idea about bump map not repeating, 3components jpegs not supported, or suggestions about reflectance maps?

Whaat · Post by **Whaat** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:01 am

Pibuz wrote: 1. A little time ago, playing around with an arroway texture on a floor diffuse channel, when i exported to indigo i got an error message saying that only 3components jpegs were currently supported, and then indigo crashed.. Any idea?

Indigo currently does not support single component textures. You must convert your single component textures to RGB color space using an image editor program. (Yes, this sucks but hopefully Ono will change it soon)

2. Another time i tried to add a floor bump map over a wooden floor mat (always by arroway). The two maps were the same size, but when i rendered only a part of the floor was bumpy: it seemed like the bump map hadn't been tiled. Any idea?

This is strange. I would have to take a look at the SKP file to figure this one out. Post it if you can.

3. Last question: arroway releases a reflection map, together with a diffuse and a bump. I've understood that the reflection map is to be put in the exponent map (phong mat) and still somehow UVmapped, but i don't understand the numeric box to the right of it. What are we supposed to put in as a value?

This has been discussed before. http://www.indigorenderer.com/joomla/fo ... 64&start=0

BTW, if you are using commercial Arroway textures, you should delete the marble floor material that you uploaded.

Cheers,
Whaat

Stinkie · Post by **Stinkie** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:41 am

... I know, I participated in the debate.

But I don't think that thread sheds very clear light on what the 'gain' value does - I mean visually.

Whaat · Post by **Whaat** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:52 am

Stinkie wrote:... I know, I participated in the debate.

But I don't think that thread sheds very clear light on what the 'gain' value does - I mean visually.

ok, AFAIK, the gain value (which corresponds to the 'b' texture coefficient) is the exponent value that will be given to 100% white pixels. (assuming 'a'=0 and 'c'=0). In other words, if you want the white areas of your exponent map to have an exponent value of 1 million, set the gain value to 1 million.

Stinkie · Post by **Stinkie** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:16 am

Ergo: the lower the gain, the blurrier the reflections?

Whaat · Post by **Whaat** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:34 am

that's right. FYI, I will probably add support for 'a' and 'c' coefficients soon. Trouble is, it will likely confuse people even more...

Stinkie · Post by **Stinkie** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:41 am

That it will.

Not everyone's a techie.

Believe me, to a relative newcomer like me, rendering lingo (I'm not even talking bout code and maths) is pretty confusing.

If it weren't for TBD and you - I'd be f*cked.

Pibuz · Post by **Pibuz** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:28 pm

Thank you all for the suggestions!

BTW the material i posted is not arroway's (i know they have copyrights

)...

So, yesterday i figured it out a little: the problem with the tiling came with arroway textures only. I checked and i saw they all were png. So, that's why i think they didn't render correclty, more fool me...

I rapidly tried to change them to jpegs in Photoshop, but i still got the same message. Probably i'm missing something in the procedure..

Today i'm going to try to convert an arroway floor the correct way!

I suppose that reflection maps i've been try to use don't work for the same reason, i'll check this in the afternoon, i hope..

THANK TO EVERYONE for helping me!!! Especially Whaat (that we'll call The Mage later on) and Stinkie!

Pibuz · Post by **Pibuz** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:26 am

Back here after a few trials..

So, i fixed the no-bumpmap-tiling problem: it was all my fault, it turned out: i forgot to convert the map from png to jpeg..

I understood also the three-component-jpeg problem: bumpmap and reflection map were grayscale (thank you Whaat), so i changed them RGB and the error message obviously doesn't show up any more..

I'm sorry i'm wasting a lot of your time, guys..
I feel like being a mosquito in a hot summer night..

Try to understand me, please!!! And possibly don't be too mad at me

I still have a big question: i've read carefully the discussion you linked me too, Whaat, about exponent maps, but i can't get them working at all, sadly.
It seems that when the exponent map is active, it kind of overrides the general settings of the material. The gain value, like you say, controls somehow the roughness of the material. Till here that's all right. But in all of my trials i can't see different reflections (according to my map) but only a generic blurry reflection, controlled by the exponent map gain value.
So, even if i have an exponent map, if i set a gain of (let's say) 1000 i obtain a surface with a generic blurred reflection (as i would have set 1000 in the simple roughness slider without any exponent map).

I wanted to ask stinkie if he has found a similar problem (given that he uses SU and SkIndigo like I do) and if he has solved it.

I've read the tip by WytRaven about making 2 phong mats with diferrent IOR and then blend them in a blend mat. I tried it too (even though for sketchup users it seem to be a little out of a logic workflow), but it seems that this technique doesn't work either..

Stinkie (or anybody), do you have a solution?

Stinkie · Post by **Stinkie** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:54 pm

Sorry, Pibuz. I am far from an expert. I just stick to the presets, which I tweak using the sliders.

Works just fine. At least, for the stuff I want.

All Sketchup, All the Time

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