Generic friendliness?

jeffr · Post by **jeffr** » Wed May 02, 2007 6:15 am

I have been doing allot of comparing between Indigo, Kerkythea and the demo version of Maxwell.

I have chosen to do all my rendering for the time being with Kerkythea and I want to give my reasons in hope that Indigo can evolve to what I can use.

From the images I've seen Indigo is to some degree in the lead as far as image quality. I don't know whether it's something different in the renderer itself or just the abilities of the people behind the images posted here. This is the reason I keep being drawn back but.....

I model using Solidworks. To get a scene to render with Kerkythea or Indigo I have to export to one of the formats available. I actually export IGES and then translate that into 3DS using Rhino version2.

Here is Indigo's down fall and the number one reason I don't use it. With Kerkythea I just have to load the scene into it's very user friendly interface apply materials either from the libraries or create one, place a camera, lights or insert an hdr image to light the scene, press render and done. Very easy.

Indigo on the other hand I have to hand code what I need for the scene which is too involved, not to mention I still have no idea how to point the camera exactly where I want just by putting in numbers. I've tried importing into Blender, which I really don't like much anyhow, but my models have a high poly count and just don't get handled very well going that route not to mention numberous other faults that occur making this method too frustrating.

All the cool features and changes to make the renderings even better are fantastic but I just want to render so hand coding is not desireable. My biggest hope for Indigo's new versions has been that a user interface like Kerkythea's would become part of it. Rather than having to write exporters for everything it would be nice to just have a common format that can just be imported into Indigo where the scene is set up visually.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking Indigo. I think it's a great renderer and I recognize the amount of work involved and understand that it's free and really is and should be just what Ono wants it to be. I just wish it could be a renderer for the rest of us. As for me I have to use something else for now.

Kram1032 · Post by **Kram1032** » Wed May 02, 2007 6:22 am

You need to hancode stuff?
Not really... dunno about Rhino, though.

Blender doesn't have any problems. you can do nearly any feature with it.

for high poly cound, you should use 0.8 (for now test 1), which supports BIH...

the GUI will get improved, but slowly... there are many other things, that could be even more intresting and even more important...

OK... you're using Rhino 2 and Solidworks...

Which Inidgo version do you use?

Kosmokrator · Post by **Kosmokrator** » Wed May 02, 2007 6:41 am

i think indigo is not cross Programm yet........i think Blender and 3ds max have the best and more updated-supported exporters....for the rest programms i understant is dificult!but this dont means that indigo is friendliness......come on...even the Maxwell has very big problems with their exporters....so....indigo for an free actively development unbiased renderer with 1 main project manager(the Nick) and some 3-4 exporter writers and site admins.....is the best efford i have ever seen...

INDIGO...RULEZZZ!!!

jeffr · Post by **jeffr** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:06 am

Don't get offended at all because I don't think Indigo is user friendly. I do think it is one of the best with regards to rendering quality.
(I don't care much for Maxwell by the way. Nice rendering but don't like the interface)

The importing into and then exporting from Blender to Indigo with regards to the complex models I'm working with is the issue. It's too much effort to get the results I want and there are issues at times. Blender itself is a fine program if that's what your into. It's got a clunky interface compared to most other software and it doesn't have the modelling abilities that Solidworks has (nor would that be expected since Solidworks is about $6000 or so Canadian)

See it from this perspective. I can get to a point where I have a 3DS file. Now I want to render it. What's easier. Kerkythea is easier. By hand coding I mean putting all the info in by hand like camera position, bring in the external 3ds file, adjust the materials, lights etc etc. into the xml (now new extension ?)

I'm not here to advertise at all for Kerkythea (I will say quietly as not to get any Kerkythea people upset.... I think Indigo is a bit ahead in render quality) but I just wish Indigo had an interface like Kerkythea has, to make it easier to use and then maybe I would use it.

zsouthboy · Post by **zsouthboy** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:08 am

I felt the same way about Maxwell, actually - since they don't have any Blender integration, I hated it - so I can see your point.

However, a simple gui for doing materials and placement (maybe) shouldn't be hard to do - right now we're waiting on the material database to go live, that will help push in that direction.

Kosmokrator · Post by **Kosmokrator** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:17 am

so jeffr i have a solution for u .......if u find indigo dificult and misery dont use it!Or change the aplication u use....if this is possible

Whaat · Post by **Whaat** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:27 am

jeffr wrote: See it from this perspective. I can get to a point where I have a 3DS file. Now I want to render it. What's easier. Kerkythea is easier.

I'll take this opportunity to do a quick plug for SkIndigo.

Have you ever tried Sketchup? It can import 3DS, is free and the UI is so intuitive. The program literally takes about 10 minutes to learn (more to master)

.It can handle high-poly models but I am not sure if there is a limit to this. You'd have to try.

With Sketchup you could easily export to Kerkythea OR Indigo so you have the best of both worlds. Of course, with SkIndigo, you can do all your material editing in Sketchup. The current release of SkIndigo is 0.7test 7 and it works with Indigo 0.7. You will not have to do any XML editing with SkIndigo (unless you want to start using VERY advanced features of Indigo)

Good luck!

jeffr · Post by **jeffr** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:50 am

Kosmokrator wrote:so jeffr i have a solution for u .......if u find indigo dificult and misery dont use it!Or change the aplication u use....if this is possible

I'm just sharing what I think would make Indigo more attractive for some people to want to use. Don't like feedback that's fine. Just a suggestion, no need to get your undies in a bunch.

I already don't use it and I'm just sharing the reason.

I'll take this opportunity to do a quick plug for SkIndigo.

Appreciate the thought but the work I do is done with Solidworks. I'm just looking for a method to render the work I do. Lot's of people are happy with Blender, lot's are happy with Sketchup and I'm happy for them if those meet their needs.

Whaat · Post by **Whaat** » Wed May 02, 2007 8:03 am

jeffr wrote: Appreciate the thought but the work I do is done with Solidworks. I'm just looking for a method to render the work I do. Lot's of people are happy with Blender, lot's are happy with Sketchup and I'm happy for them if those meet their needs.

I think you misunderstood. Right now you are using Solidworks->IGES->Rhino->3DS->Kerkythea?
With Sketchup you can go Solidworks->IGES->Rhino->3DS->Sketchup/Indigo
The last step (Sketchup/Indigo) is equivalent to the Kerkythea step so it is the same amount of work. Only with the latter method, you get to use Indigo which you said yourself you would rather use if you didn't have to edit XML files.

Wedge · Post by **Wedge** » Wed May 02, 2007 8:08 am

With a small community project like this (At least this is how I see it), only the 3d software that community uses gets supported.

Just recently I have noticed more 3d software subforums open up.

Since it is a free renderer it is easy to see why Blender is also one of the most popular packages supported.

I will assume that most commercial 3d model software either has its own renderer built in, or people just buy commercial renderers for support. This is my assumption for businesses I guess.

I understand your thoughts and I wish you the best with your work.

I hope in the future Indigo includes some kind of material editor. If I had Visual Studio I would program one myself. Some day I will buy it but right now I do not have the budget for it.

Kram1032 · Post by **Kram1032** » Wed May 02, 2007 8:11 am

actually, the Max exporter is also quite good, as far as I see...
Maya stands still, if I remember right and C4D updates recently...

Sketchup should be about the same level a the Maxexporter.... I guess...

Then, there is this great additional feature with fog...

I really don't see, what's your problem, especially as the exporters (dunno, which exactly) include immediately rendernig.

But ok, if you can't get it working, propperly and are not willing, to see, what's wrong, just don't use it, 'till you see, that it's userfriendliness is good enough for you

But you definately should look at the WIP of Indigo... maybe, you sometimes see, that it's ok for you

Whaat · Post by **Whaat** » Wed May 02, 2007 8:24 am

Kram1032 wrote:actually, the Max exporter is also quite good, as far as I see...

It sounds like he prefers to use free software, though.

Sketchup should be about the same level a the Maxexporter.... I guess...

I try to keep up with suvakas but he's always a few steps ahead of me...

BTW I think maxigo has fog export but I don't know about fog preview

Kram1032 · Post by **Kram1032** » Wed May 02, 2007 8:29 am

ok.
Didn't know, that ANY other exporter has fog - export.
Just, that it shall be a mesh with low SSS...

suvakas · Post by **suvakas** » Wed May 02, 2007 8:58 am

Whaat wrote: I try to keep up with suvakas but he's always a few steps ahead of me...

Really? I take this as a compliment

I actually don't have a very good overview of what's going on with other exporters. Too much info to follow...

Whaat wrote: BTW I think maxigo has fog export but I don't know about fog preview

yes, Maxigo has fog, but no fog preview. So.. whaat, you're actually ahead of me.

Ps. While we're talking about exporters. Do you guys know what exporters are already supporting *.igm? ..or how far we are with it?

Kram1032 · Post by **Kram1032** » Wed May 02, 2007 9:03 am

as far as I know, zuegs is working on a pharser for blendigo

But not yet implented.

Generic friendliness?

Generic friendliness?

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