Indigo Renderer Forum

So these represent about 5.5 months of self-taught effort in SketchUp in various projects that I've done. I would love any input, critique, etc. that you guys/gals have to offer. I sit here looking at this stuff thinking 'it's never good enough,' 'who would pay for this?', you know where my mind is. Hopefully there's some semblance of skill that's going to help me with my business at some point. I'm open to any and all thoughts, what you'd have me practice at, whatever. Hit me in the brain with your knowledge!

Hi sharky zero, good move with sharing !

One thing that will deter wildly from realism is objects off proportions. The bed for instance feels squashed, the keyboard (and desk ?) feels small compared with the highest shelf etc.

It also impairs the perception of ergonomy and the customer may have troubles with projecting him/herself at the spot; it may give a wrong feeling.

Study some interior/design photography as a reference. You'll quickly notice that straight verticals are very common. Fix your camera angles.

Thanks for the help!

Proportion, check. I'll work on that. I seem to have a problem with making rooms that are huge that don't translate at all in a render image.

Voytech, what do you mean by straight verticals?

Sharkyzero wrote:Thanks for the help!

Proportion, check. I'll work on that. I seem to have a problem with making rooms that are huge that don't translate at all in a render image.

Voytech, what do you mean by straight verticals?

No time to explain, sorry, just read: http://scotthargisphoto.wordpress.com/2 ... -straight/

VERY interesting. I didn't even know "straight verticals," as it's known, was even a concept. Thank you for that link.

I always love tests, and I really think posting them is the easiest way to learn. So I totally support your workflow. Also, this reminds myself what I started with, several years ago. I'm sonostalgic..

Indeed, I want to tell you that I didn't spent a lira or euro cent in CG lessons: everything I do comes from internet tutorials and many many hours exactly of what you're doing. So, keep on working and you'll sure be selling these one day!!!

A few hints from me, sorted by topic:

1. LIGHTING
Generally, I see interesting lighting in all of your scenes. "Interesting" means what gives importance to the elements of the scenes, or even some sort of mood to the image; the only one not so convincing is the open-air shot with sun/sky, which results to be flat, but that is not the main error of that image after all. If you plan to become an "architecture visualizer" try to look for the best ambience suited for the subject (the one with the bedroom in the mountains is very good, for instance) or the lighting which brings out the essence (the asphalt closeup in escellent). A render is absolutely not the same thing if you change its lighting...
Sadly, mostly in architectural shots (excepted some very rare cases), natural lighting has to be integrated with artificial lighting, which in CG requires additional "technical" skills to correctly balance colours, calculation efficiency etc. BUT you can postpone this stuff and keep on training on the basic lighting situations. I see you manage very well HDR maps, so we can go to point 2

2. MODELING
Scale is a very important thing to keep in mind, but someone else already popped up with it.
I'm adding my best-seller tip: DETAILING!
In all of your scenes there is a dramatic lack of detailing! Don't think of it as a loss of time, but instead as a mean for the light to appraise your image! every single edge you draw make light bounce differently in all directions, and this will end up enriching the final sensation fo sure. Obviously, don't model details which noone will ever be able to see, but model carefully everything which is in direct view (or mirrored).
Very frequently, detailing implies the know-how needed to build up things in the real life: if you're an architect just keep on studying. If you're not, or if you want to extend your knowledge, just take a look to architectural photos on the net, magazines and techical sheets for everything you model for the first time. There is a load of things to know to make an object done and properly working. Keep in mind: the lesser the subjects of the scene, the more the details to draw. So, if you're modeling a fountain pen, you must model even the carving on the metal of the tip; if you're modeling a room, you can stick "only" to architectural details (in the bedroom in the mountains for instance there is no skirting where the walls hit the floor; there aren't any additional lightsources, or any sockets; the glass curtain wall is hermetic and that won't happen in a bedroom; the floor is....yes: what is the floor? )

A second part of modeling is about objects: those too have to be carefully modeled. But architectural visualizers are not designers, so we don't care to model chairs, sofas, armchairs... THAT is actually a loss of time! BUT there are plenty of companies which struggle to try to make us happy selling pieces of wonderful design furniture perfectly modeled for us! Just lose some time searching through their magnificent databases and choose the best suited-fot-the-case model/s. I suggest you have a look to designconnected and evermotion archmodels.
Next step is try to learn how to handle extremely detailed models, choosing between importing them when they're not tooooooo heavy), and when using them as external references. Spend some time learning this, it will help you a lot in the future!

Here is some work showing the difference between two shots of the exact same room.
The first one is from one colleague of mine: the project is hers, but she did not studied anything about the interior. She obviously barely knows the cg means, although she is actually strongly willing to learn. The second one is the same livingroom after some work by me.

The main changes are:
1. Adjusted the POV, and tried a vertical shot to emphasize the double-heighted room;
2. Tried HDR illumination for the natural light coming from the outdoor, and integrated by artificial light here and there;
3. (very) Little little work on the materials: all mats are phong excepted the white walls (to speed up rendering). The only material with a slightly higher level of difficulty is the floor, which has an exp map. Nothing more complicated than that;
4. Details where needed, the door handles, the light switches, the wood joints, beveling of almost all edges..
Obviously the couches, the chairs and the spun lamp are not modeled by me. I could have added a fire but this was a rush work....

Hope this can help you!

Pibuz wrote:Here is some work showing the difference between two shots of the exact same room.
The first one is from one colleague of mine: the project is hers, but she did not studied anything about the interior. She obviously barely knows the cg means, although she is actually strongly willing to learn. The second one is the same livingroom after some work by me.

The main changes are:
1. Adjusted the POV, and tried a vertical shot to emphasize the double-heighted room;
2. Tried HDR illumination for the natural light coming from the outdoor, and integrated by artificial light here and there;
3. (very) Little little work on the materials: all mats are phong excepted the white walls (to speed up rendering). The only material with a slightly higher level of difficulty is the floor, which has an exp map. Nothing more complicated than that;
4. Details where needed, the door handles, the light switches, the wood joints, beveling of almost all edges..
Obviously the couches, the chairs and the spun lamp are not modeled by me. I could have added a fire but this was a rush work....

Hope this can help you!

Nice, though I think balancing the natural and artificial lighting with temperature (blue outside light, orange interior light) would make it punch a bit more.

Pibuz,

One question - that fireplace. It just looks odd to me. Not in terms of design so much, but logic. First, the wood is stored directly above the fireplace... call me paranoid but I'd be constantly freaking out that the whole thing would catch fire. Secondly, I assume there has to be an exhaust vent so that the fumes can escape to the outside. If the vertical white part is the vent, where does it go? There are doors above on that wall, so that's clearly not an exterior wall.

Again, I'm not trying to take apart your design, just genuinely curious about the solutions. I'd love an indoor fireplace like that at home.

Pibuz wrote: 2. Tried HDR illumination for the natural light coming from the outdoor, and integrated by artificial light here and there;

I'd be interested in what HDR's you are using. Anything fancy, or does any HDRI look okay when used in interior rendering?

And... if you want sharp shadows, what do would you do to keep the lit-up areas from getting burned out using Indigo sun? afg-100CD camera perhaps, or different tone mappings composited together? Or do you use a combination of sun and HDR in those cases?

Forgive me for asking so much, but I just think your images work really well. I like your subtle CA in your pics too.

@voytech
Yeah
I'm as curious as you all the time so, don't worry!

About the chimney, I don't know anything about them, it's the first time I model one from scratch. I drew inspiration from some real fireplaces I found on the internet. Some of them are purely esthetic, so no warm fire will ever come out of them. This may be one of them. The wood storage above the fire is my idea, actually, given the fact that some manufacturers guarantee the perfect heat costriction inside the glass box. The vertical white part is actually the vent, which has a curve before approaching the balauster and gets inside the rooms' wall, and then exits onto the roof. I don't know where are you from but here in Italy this is nothing new: we usually use brick for interior walls too, so there is no problem inserting an exhausting vent. We usually use concrete prefabricated bricks to host the vent and drive it to the roof.

Hope I've been clear enough..

@ Oscar
Hi mate thanks for the compliments!

Here I used a HDR image from Peter Guthrie's collection: it's full of very good skies! I formerly used random free HDRs from sIBL archive, but with many of them the result wasn't this good. The choice for the best natural illumination is very difficult, and takes me loads of time, also because my machine is quote old now, so the "previews" too are long to render.. I usually change 4/5 maps before choosing the one which gives the right tone to my image; then I explore the type of illumination rotating the map. Sometimes it can change dramatically.
I tend to use HDR maps when I don't want a direct sun, so I haven't any burnt-areas issues generally. Some HDR maps are very interesting because they have a very bright sun, so you can get kind of a soft direct light, which turns out to be much less "straight" than Indigo's sun. Most of the times, that is good enough for me.

I have to admit that I've been not using sun/sky for months, indeed.

Pibuz wrote:@voytech
Yeah
I'm as curious as you all the time so, don't worry!

About the chimney, I don't know anything about them, it's the first time I model one from scratch. I drew inspiration from some real fireplaces I found on the internet. Some of them are purely esthetic, so no warm fire will ever come out of them. This may be one of them. The wood storage above the fire is my idea, actually, given the fact that some manufacturers guarantee the perfect heat costriction inside the glass box. The vertical white part is actually the vent, which has a curve before approaching the balauster and gets inside the rooms' wall, and then exits onto the roof. I don't know where are you from but here in Italy this is nothing new: we usually use brick for interior walls too, so there is no problem inserting an exhausting vent. We usually use concrete prefabricated bricks to host the vent and drive it to the roof.

Hope I've been clear enough..

Ahhhh, makes perfect sense then. I totally forgot about european construction (aka REAL housing, not wooden match structures). All is well then

Ah, was hoping it'd be free HDR's. Anyway I've been building up quite a collection of free ones because of my interest in car rendering, so hopefully there are a few ones there that can be of use.

Thanks for the tips!

You're all welcome guys!

@Tom
sorry mate I didn't see you comment!
I would have done the same thing as you suggest but my colleague says the potential purchasers wouldn't be that sensitive.... You have to know that here in Italy the medium house-looker has no architectural background, unfortunately. I think that is why we keep on building terrible blocks and houses.. Sometimes happens that seeing a design piece of furniture in a render they say: "hey what's that? A CHAIR? my grandpa used to sleep on one that is actually very very cute...couldn't you put that in the render instead?"

Efforts are so rarely understood.......