Indigo Renderer Forum

Hi

I hope you'll not gone be mad on me, that I'm writing this post here but I don't know where should I.
I'm working in indigo for some time, but still when I run Blender and see blendigo I don't know meaning of all options.
Is there some help about it, but written in easy way (I mean: "if you'll do this, this will happen" or "this will slow dawn render and this will speed up, or just show, and so on). My English isn't so god to understand every word (specially when the vocabulary used in render programs is rather physic then ordinary).
I didn't want to write in blendigo topic that because all essential options are having this same names in all exporters so it's rather deepens from Indigo.

check out the manual and tutorials under the menus above. they should provide a pretty extensive overview of what each thing does.

http://www.indigorenderer.com/joomla/in ... &Itemid=62

I know manual (I even print it ), but that's why I ask that question, is there some tutorial where explanations are more "simple" for someone who rather is interested in designing then rather physics.

is there some tutorial where explanations are more "simple" for someone who rather is interested in designing then rather physics.

This may have escaped from the attention of some , but the vast majority of users here is more interested in design than in physics. May they be heared (in advance, lol) !

It's all about time... you spend most of it to catch meaning of words then focus on project.

Yea, I dont get it either. I'm a noob, but I almost ran into my closet scared when I saw all that rocket science info on that "manual."

Why is it so complex? I barely understood how to install the program.

Well ono's 'manual' keeping has never been his greatest competancy let alone providing a comprehensive source of help for newbies. The manual is really a tech reference.
Look to the wiki and the forums to pick up info. (use the search too ).
If all else fails ask a question

Ono has a bent for pursuing technical accuracy in his render engine that doesnt correspond all that well with the direct simple needs of artistic users, or their priorities, or of newbies.
To date export writers have endeavoured to interpret and provide access to the functions supplied, via their application, as Indigo evolves ie they are a work in progress themselves.
Many of the people who use Indigo are clued up about renderers technically prior to coming here so there has not been much effort put into providing the basic info that others might need.

I can understand your viewpoint if you find it overwhelming.
Unfortunately to use this renderer well you will need to be a little familiar with the concepts of photography and optics.

If you have downloaded my Blendigo version for v1.1.9 (and please be aware these versions are of a beta type standard not esp suited to newbies) I have endeavoured to provide useful tool tips/clues as much as possible for unfamiliar users, make the whole thing more automatic/intuitive, and removed options from showing in the UI when they arent applicable.

This is very much better than it used to be (I hope) , as is the wiki, but I too would really like to see people provide '1,2,3 step by step, how to' tutorials.
On the other hand dont under estimate the time and effort it takes to make decent tutorials.

Unfortunately though the primary problem here is that we have a wee problem in the general Indigo community called 'parasitic sloth'.
'Parasitic sloth' means you just sit there, think of yourself, and wait on someone else to provide things. 97% of visitors have this affliction.
This pisses me off to the core but thats human nature unfortunately.

If this renderer was more directly under the Blender banner perhaps more people might be more involved but then again perhaps not.
Unfortunately the present situation here is likely to continue.
You will need to help yourself as much as you can.
The climb is steep but the view from the lookout is great.
One foot goes after the other.
HTH

EDIT: btw if you have comments to make as a newbie about the complexity, button layout or whatever of the Blendigo scripts feel free to have your say in the Blender forum.

A "newbie" guide would be great in my opinion. I mean, the manual is mostly shader code synatax, which isn't even something alot of artists would even use. Most artists prefer to foxus ont heir project, so they will only deal with the UI.

I felt concerned and wrote:Honestly, before a "newbie guide" can be set up, we (I) need intermediary data. Obviously Ono is relying on exporter writers to bridge the gap, wich make sense; the fact is, that the level of incoming information is aimed toward very motivated exporter writers. Better for them if they excell in the very same field than OnoSendaï...

OnoSendaï, you know I was the one always asking for updated pdf documentation AND I noticed feedback. But now I realize that documentation is not all, a bit of explanation is required to. Please keep in mind that I'm not going somewhere with MtI because it somehow "needs" python now, wich means for me to learn separately python and Maya API, PLUS masterize Indigo concepts. That's very demanding.

It may appear that it belongs to me to go trough the two first steps, agreed, ah crap.

The critic of me (yes we can) is that this all take time, Indigo is still moving and since we want it always improved this is a good thing, we must keep that in mind too.

I would suggest thinking all aloud here about what would be a good balance between involvement level demanded and eventual production requests.

I hope I was not excessive that time...

Cheers

There I meant, let's put clearly:

1° - what does end users expect from exporter writers

2° - what does exporter writers expect from OnoSendaï

3° - what exactly is fun for OnoSendaï (what he would do or not)

I guess the intention is better exposed now.

ok heres my perspective

I have been 'ok' writing docs for hobbyist Blenderheads.
I didnt enjoy doing it on my own but thats another matter..
I will not however provide stuff for free out of my spare time to people making 300 euro each for a render which is what many apparently do.
I think I already wrote somewhere my time incl donations on Indigo if you valued it, is now about US$5000. The stuff you find here for free, cost someone, somewhere, time and effort.

In my case, no more are these things done, for you. You are fortunate I make an exception to give you 1.1.10 to play with the new Indigo features while smartden is away, because as many of you know, I already decided to stop doing stuff here somewhile ago because of the situation.

Ultimately this is ono's money making project. It is up to him to provide sufficient information to explain, publicise, and encourage the uptake of his renderer, answer questions properly, and be responsive to user requests for features.
Ultimately I dont care about ono and what is fun for him, in fact more often than not his approach has been highly annoying.
I wouldnt be the first to have issue with that and move on.
If he makes this renderer available and its good and useful I'll use it, if it isnt I wont.
Most likely I will now stop spending time on updating the script altogether and just keep using what I have. It meets my needs as is.
I dont want to keep spending time reworking it.
I wont continue just for charity to Blenderheads.
There are other things in my time limited life that are more important.

I will not write the Indigo users docs for other applications to borrow or fill in for ono's laziness.
I will not provide newbie docs of the like neo requests.
People like neo should be grateful as much exists as it does.
If you are not somewhat technically savyy this is the wrong renderer for you or you are here too early in its development.
The docs and setup tut for 1.09 are the only ones I will bother doing to that standard.
The door is entirely open to someone else to write whatever they like or improve what already exists.

So far the participation from the wider community of users has been abysmal. If you, the users, dont get off your arses and help yourselves you will continue to have nothing. Nothing comes from nothing.
Apparently about half of Indigo users do so through Blender.
Thats a large number of people doing sweet FA and expecting to be given everything and in perpetuity.

Users should have no expectations of me as an export writer.
I add the new stuff and incorporate it as I can and as it suits.
I try to make the UI flow well and be logical and provide useful tool tips but I am not going to polish it as a commercial program.

Really I dont like being faced with a forum of demands for this or that or 'it doesnt work' complaints particularly if they are from people who seemingly dont know what they are doing because they havent even bothered to familiarise themselves with the info that is available.

I am not a paid-for help desk. I have endeavoured to hang around and provide assistance and fixes for the script I shared but I can see why smartden would be happy to go on holiday and even stay there permanently.

so my 20 cents
cheers
BF

Ahum. Ok Big Fan. Well I know you a bit now, and I swear I was expecting you to answer first and longer (you don't have to believe this). Though I was hoping it would be... not your usual position (though you are entitled to ). But it's ok if you need to express it again, and somehow I understand your feelings on people expectations You are bound to nothing and your work is apreciated, I hope and guess.

- - - -

Not sure if that was pixie who said that the best thing was for the exporters to stick with host application idioms. I for instance was lobbying for MtI to use Indigo terminology within Maya, because I'm not sure one can really grab Indigo guts using another slang. Maybe that depends on used software's philosophy, but then, what would the Indigo doc be for ? In its actual state that would render it pointless for the end user, period.

I believe this point can define the final aim and look of the documentation, and relation between exp writers and main coder, that's amongst the things I'd like to be discussed. Random user input is welcome...

Sorry no change
- dont want to bore people with long posts of my viewpoint and repeatedly

Hope to be packed up and gone from here about Tuesday - that will be about 3 weeks of my attention.
I think most people who are interested will have the stand-in script to play with by then and can busk along until smartden is back.

Hope you guys get your docs sorted out in a manner that suits you.
Most likely the SDK folks will come up with stuff approriate to their customers needs and taste and in keeping with the application style.

I dont know what Blenderheads will do
Its up to them to come up with something among themselves - honestly I wouldnt be too hopeful of anything eventuating though
Possibly they should do something in the Blender wiki rather than here.

later
BF

Hmm I wonder what would happened now with exporter, but I understand you Big Fan, the money are always problem or rather, there are always some "need". For example if I make a conference I have to pay for it from my own pocket... and now one care about it. But there's something in it that I like to do it.

Probably there will be next conference about Blender in Poland (Krakow) and I'm planing to talk about indigo, and because everything will be recorded I have a plan to make (finely) some good tutorial, how to use Indigo. To make this international there will be no sound just text.
those are gone be my 20 cents for you :